36.  But Isaiah 53 is only one of four 'servant' songs in Isaiah. Are you trying to say that Yeshua is portrayed in ALL of them? How about Isaiah 42:1-4?
 
 

          'This is My servant, whom I uphold,
           My chosen one, in whom I delight.
           I have put My spirit upon him.
           He shall teach the true way to the nations (gentiles).
           He shall not cry out or shout aloud,
           Or make his voice heard in the streets.
           He shall not break even a bruised reed,
           Or snuff out even a dim wick.
           He shall bring forth the true way.
           He shall not grow dim or be bruised
           Until he has established the true way on earth;
           And the coastlands shall await his teaching'

                                                                Isaiah 42:1-4

     Sounds like Yeshua to me.  Who has had G-d's spirit put upon him? Who has taught  the true way to the nations (gentiles)? (It certainly wasn't King Hezekiah!)   He was not a rowdy politician or fanatic--he did not cry aloud nor make his voice heard in the streets, but was meek and mild, and gentle to those whose lives, or righteousness, had grown dim.  And the coastlands (or the isles)--which generally means the gentile nations--have awaited and accepted his teaching, to lead them into the true way (and out of paganism).

                                                                              (RP)

37.  So what about Isaiah 49:1-6? You mean to say that this doesn't refer to Israel?  It even says, 'My servant, Israel'!

     First, let me preface this by saying that yes, the word 'servant' IS often applied to Israel. (It occurs often enough that I don't have to mention all the examples.)  It is also applied to various individuals, for instance, Moses (Num. 12:7), Joshua (Judges 2:8), David (Ps. 89:21), Eliakim (Isaiah 22:20), and so on. Even Nebuchadnezzer gets this title (Jer. 25:9 and 27:6). So, would it not be logical to assume that the messiah, too, when he comes, would also be referred to as a 'servant' in this way?  And perhaps he is, in Zech. 3:8, 'For behold, I will bring forth My servant the Shoot'.
     Now, in chapter 49, the messiah is depicted as called from his mother's womb (verse 1). He is even named by  G-d before he was born. This fits Yeshua, whom Miryam was told to call 'Yeshua', because 'he will save'  his people, even before he was born.
     Then, in verse 2, he is shown hidden, concealed with G-d, like a sword kept in a sheath, or an arrow in a quiver, until it is time for him to appear.

     It is verse 3 that might at first appear troublesome. '. . . You are My servant, Israel. . . '  However, the name Israel is also the name of a person, the one who wrestled with G-d and prevailed; and the name here  could, in a collective sense, be seen to refer to BOTH the nation, and to that nation's ultimate representative or champion (ie, the appearance of the redeemer). For example, in a hypothetical case, G-d might choose to address Churchill in WWII by saying, 'You are My servant, England', referring to both Churchill, specifically, and the English people as a whole. Will not in the same way the messiah represent the whole of Israel?  And is not, in fact, the messiah the culmination of the purpose for the choosing of Israel as a nation in the first place? So it would be right to address him by that name.

     In addition, the entire life of Yeshua is a parallel to the life of the nation of Israel.  Like them, he is called out of Egypt. Like Moses, who is told, 'the men that sought thy life are dead' (Exodus 4:19),  Yeshua's family is told they can return home because ''those who were trying to take the child's life are dead' (Matt. 2:20).  Likewise, Joseph was rejected by his own brothers, and delivered over to the gentiles. There he is given the title, Zaphenah-Paneah, 'savior of the world'(Gen. 41:45).  At the end of the story he is reunited with his family, and he tells them not to fear him, 'I am your brother' (Gen. 45: 4) (The very story of Yeshua, in a nutshell.)

     Yeshua was most likely born during Sukkot. This was the festival of great joy, the season of rejoicing--because it commemorated the time when G-d, Himself, was personally present with the people in the wildereness. Yeshua was slain at Pesach, on the very day, and died at the exact same moment when the lamb of Pesach was being offered in the Temple. And so on, and so on. Thus, his life mirrored Israel's, and Israel's mirrored his. And all this is just as it should be, for the life of the messiah. As R. Shlomo Atruc (14th cent.) put it, 'When he (Isaiah) speaks of the people, the King Messiah is included with it; and when he speaks of the King Messiah, the people are included with him.' (Note that he says this, and thereby makes the same  point as above, even though he himself  did not accept Yeshua, and thought that Isaiah 53 referred primarily to the nation of Israel.)

     In verse 4,  the messiah complains that his labors have been in vain and have brought forth little fruit. Yet G-d comforts him--he who was formed to 'bring Jacob back to Him, and that Israel be gathered unto Him'. (It would be hard to see the nation of Israel as the one doing the restoring  in this verse.) In verse 6, G-d promises him his reward: 'It is too small a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the offspring of Israel; I will also give you for a light to the gentiles, that My salvation may be known to the ends of the earth'. (Again, it is hard to see the nation of Israel 'restoring' the nation of Israel.)

      'I will give you for a covenant of the people. . . ' (verse 8)--again, possibly the messiah who will initiate the new covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33. And finally, to extend a bit, in verses 15 and 16, you have the wonderful notation that, even though a mother may forget her own children, G-d will not forget Isreal; for he has 'graven you upon the palms of My hands. . .'  Interesting expression. . .

38.  What about Isaiah 50:4-9?

     Here the messiah receives his commission from G-d (verse 4), and he does not turn back from his task, even though it involves suffering (verse 5). In verse 6 he is humiliated ('I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair; I hid not my face from shame and spitting'--and this corresponds to Matt. 26:67, Mark 14:65, and Mark 15:19,20 in the NT, where Yeshua is mocked in the same way. Yeshua himself refers to this in Luke 18:31,32).  Yet he knows that G-d will justify him in the end.

39.So how about the last song? Remember that Isaiah 52:13 on,and Isaiah 53, really form one cohesive whole(the chapter divisions were added in the middle ages). Is Yeshua here, in all of this, too?

     'Behold, My servant shall prosper, He shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high' (verse 13). Sounds like Yeshua: 'Exalted to the right hand of the Father', Peter said of him (Acts 2:33). 'G-d exalted him to His own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel' (Acts 5:31). 'Who. .  . made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant. . . therefore G-d exalted him to the highest place. . . ' (Phillipians 2:9).

     In verse 14, again the humiliation of the messiah is depicted. Yet he shall still (verse 15) 'sprinkle' many nations (gentiles? heathen?) as, perhaps, after a sacrifice. (Note that the word for 'sprinkle' here is used                                                                                                                      twenty-four times in the Tenach. In the King  James Version, it is always translated as 'sprinkle', or similarly. In the modern Jewish Publication Society version, it is translated 23 times as 'sprinkle' or similarly. Here, however, is it translated differently, as 'startle'. There does not seem to be sufficient reason for this.  Two of the earliest Greek translations, by Aquila and Theodotion, use the technical word for 'sprinkling to clean' here. Similarly, a host of Jewish commentators through the centuries have also denoted  'sprinkle' or similar. (See Driver and Neubauer, pp. xxxvii-xxxviii, and notes J through 8, for an extensive comment.)

    'Kings shall shut their mouths because of him; For that which (they) had not been told about shall they perceive.' Again, if this refers to the gentile nations, it can mean that they shall have the truths about G-d told to them (as would fulfill Jeremiah 16:19,20).

     Finally, we come to the fifty-third chapter, which, as noted, is really a continuation of the last part of the fifty-second. In verse 2, we have perhaps again a reference to the 'shoot from the stock of Jesse. . .the twig from out of his roots' spoken of in Isaiah 11:1 (a passage generally admitted to be messianic, as it is the place where the prophet speaks of the lion laying down with the lamb); and possibly also to the passage in Zechariah 3:8. In verse 3 we see that the messiah is rejected and despised:'he was despised and rejected of men':  and 'a man of suffering, and familiar with sickness; and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not'.  Certainly Yeshua was despised and rejected in his own time; and by his own people. (In the Great Isaiah Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the impression is even stronger,  saying, 'we despised him and we did not esteem him'. See Geever and Heinle, 'Messianic Prophecies From a Dead Sea Scroll'.)
     Verse 4:'Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of G-d, and afflicted'.
     Verse 5: 'But he was wounded because of our transgressions'.  The Great Isaiah Scroll here has, 'And he was pierced because of our transgressions.'
     Verse 7:  Here the messiah accepts the role G-d has given him; there is no protest in his mouth. Yeshua went to the crucifixion. Though no                                                                                                                             man was more innocent, he did not protest his innocence on the way to death. He did not plead for help from the crowd which only a week before had welcomed him into Jerusalem and wanted to proclaim him king. He did not cry out for pity. He remained silent before them all. His only concern was for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, which he expressed to some women who were weeping for him along the way.

     In verse 8, 'For he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of My people to whom the stroke was due.'   Who exactly was cut off?  If this refers to Israel being cut off from the land of Israel, then who is the 'My people' to whom the stroke was due? If this refers to Israel being sent into exile because of Israel's sins, then Israel's sufferings cannot be said to be innocent, and  thereby  suffering for OUR transgressions (whoever the OUR is--presumably, according to one interpretation, the gentiles).

     'Land of the living' is used elsewhere in scripture, for example, by the same prophet in Is. 38:11 to refer to Hezekiah's expectation of dying young; in Jer. 11:19 about a plot to kill Jeremiah;  and in Job 28:13, where it is stated that wisdom cannot be found in the land of the living. From these contexts it seems clear that this expression means literally what it says, and does not refer to the land of Israel.

     .In verse 9 the word for 'death' here is no more a plural than is the word 'chaim', for   'life',  a plural. ( It is also used for the death of the king of Tyre in Ez. 28:10.)  Many Hebrew nouns use a plural in this way to describe a 'state  of being' (such as 'youth', 'life', 'death', etc.)

     In verse 10, why does he suffer? Because it is the L-rd's will to crush him, not because He was unable to save him. And why? In order that he might be a guilt-offering.  Note that the Great Isaiah Scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls renders this, 'But the L-rd wanted him crushed, and he pierced him (to death). . . ' The modern Hebrew Massoretic text reads, 'Yet it pleased the L-rd to crush him by disease', or 'to crush him and make him sick'. ( The King James translates this as 'he hath put him to grief'; and the NIV as 'and  cause him to suffer'.) The Dead Sea Scroll, however, is 1000 years earlier than the Massoretic text, and it is possible that it   reflects an earlier (or more accurate) tradition. (See Geever and Heinle, as above). 'He shall seed his seed (or more accurately, 'a seed')  . .'  This is the same expression, 'a seed', used in Psalm 22:30 (31), 'A seed shall serve him', also a prophecy about the messiah. (See Driver and Neubauer, pp. lvii-lviii, for an extended discussion.)

     In verse 11, the Massoretic text reads, 'Of the travail of his soul, he shall see to the full'; or, in the King James Version, 'He shall see the travail of his soul, and be satisfied'. In the Great Isaiah Scroll, the text has an added word: 'From the suffering of his soul he shall see LIGHT and be satisfied'.  According to the authors of 'Messianic Prophecies from a Dead Sea Scroll', the Hebrew reads much more naturally with this added word, as  in the Massoretic text there are two back-to-back verbs without it,  and this would be unusual in  Hebrew usage. Can this be a reference to a resurrection for the sufferer?

     In verse 12, the sufferer enjoys his triumph. But it is not a triumph won by force of arms, but rather, it is his reward from G-d. 'Therefore I will give him the mighty for a portion, and he shall divide the strong as a spoil, for a reward'. As it says in Psalm 2, which may also refer to the Messiah, 'Ask of Me, and I will give you the nations (gentiles?) for an inheritance, and the ends of the earth for you possession'.

     So, it is possible to interpret these passages as being of one whole, and referring to a suffering messiah. Certainly these were so understood by the early followers of Yeshua. For example, they are explained that way in Acts 8:32-3, and in I Peter 2:22-25, where parts of Isaiah 53 are quoted or paraphrased  almost verbatim. In other words, some people of that period (which was before the Temple was destroyed), who were therefore very familiar with the sacrificial system, saw the parallels here with the life (and death) of Yeshua. They did not miss  the meaning of the words 'sprinkle' and 'guilt-offering', and saw the passage in that light.

40.  But you  misunderstand. What Isaiah is talking about is how the gentiles will see the suffering they have caused Israel and repent of it, when they see Israel glorified. This repentance will 'cure' them and make them whole again, and right with G-d.

     Well, let us assume, for the moment (for the sake of argument), that this is the case, and these passages do refer to Israel. What then becomes of the justice of G-d? For He would be making the innocent suffer on account of another's sins. And no HUMAN is ever substituted and made to suffer for another's sins.  THAT concept is specifically denied by scripture. 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father with him, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son with him; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.'  (Ezekiel 18:20). And Psalm 49:8 says, 'No man can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to G-d a ransom for him--for too costly is the redemption of their soul'.
     Further,  Israel cannot be considered sinless and righteous, which is another requirement of the passage. ( Isaiah even declares himself to be a man 'of unclean lips', who lives among 'a people of unclean lips' (Is. 6:5). And what becomes of the (supposed) doctrine that it is Isreal's sins which are keeping the messiah from appearing?
      In addition, neither did Israel ever undertake her exiles voluntarily, nor were her sufferings optional. The servant, on the other hand, humbles himself, and opens not his mouth in protest. He is not rebellious (as in Is. 50, verse 5). He does not turn away backward.  When Israel suffers, however, she cries for justice, as do her prophets when they suffer:  'You understand, Oh L-rd; remember me and care for me. Avenge me on my persecutors. . . Why is my pain unending? And my wound grievous and incurable? ' (Jeremiah 10:15,18).  'Oh daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us--he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.' (Psalm 137:8,9). 'Pay them back what they deserve, Oh L-rd, for what their hands have done. Put a veil over their hearts, and may your curse be upon them. Pursue them in anger and destroy them from under the heavens of the L-rd.' (Lamentations 3:64-66).
     On the other hand, it is promised that 'G-d shall redeem my soul from the power of the grave' (Ps. 49:16; verse 15 in Christian Bibles).
In the sacrifice of Yeshua, it is G-d Himself intervening to bear the punishment. And He is the only one who can truly be considered innocent.